(10-11-2015, 12:22 PM)Rukii Wrote: [ -> ]In what way?
I wouldn't say the fantasy setting or the artstyle particularly attempts realism.
(10-11-2015, 12:24 PM)Segolia Wrote: [ -> ]It doesn't though? It may have a lot of self-referential humour and 'meta' elements but it never really implies at any point that the agency of the characters extends beyond the context of the game (i.e impacts reality).
Or to put it another way - it never acts like the reality of the game isn't distinct from actual reality.
What I'm talking about is the fact that this game goes through great lengths to ensure the consequences of your actions are permanent. Such a thing is something for reality, not a video game. Especially as people tend to use games to get away from reality for a while.
that's the entire point of undertale, the game is designed to remember EVERYTHING and i mean EVERYTHING.
(10-11-2015, 12:27 PM)Jim_Clonk Wrote: [ -> ]What I'm talking about is the fact that this game goes through great lengths to ensure the consequences of your actions are permanent. Such a thing is something for reality, not a video game. Especially as people tend to use games to get away from reality for a while.
So you're entirely disregarding that the "permanent effects" is a direct commentary on how casually people treat their actions in made up worlds?
It's not reality, and it knows it's not- but that still doesn't make way for psychopatic behaviour, just because the genre lends itself to "fighting monsters and gaining exp".
It's more interesting that it actually does something with a concept, that nobody seems to really touch on, and that doesn't at all make it realistic, just another form of game.
I know what it's going for, and I appreciate the concept. I just think it went a bit too far.
(10-11-2015, 12:30 PM)SCN-3_NULL Wrote: [ -> ]yeah...that happens if you do the genocide run, it's permanent even with a full data cleanse(because it's linked to your steam cloud)
No need to strike that through, I know what's going on...
My point is that, if I want to completely reset my game, I should be allowed to do so as it is just a game, not reality.
Although, I must say that the method that was used is rather genius.
you could use the super mecha death christ 2000 bc version 4.0 beta level of tricking the steam could to overwrite the data it initially have.
(10-11-2015, 12:34 PM)Jim_Clonk Wrote: [ -> ]No need to strike that through, I know what's going on...
My point is that, if I want to completely reset my game, I should be allowed to do so as it is just a game, not reality.
Although, I must say that the method that was used is rather genius.
Then you can, you just need to delete all data associated with it.
Through use of your vast knowledge of reality's backends, that is~
As I previously said, the game makes absolutely ridiculously sure that exactly that isn't possible.
(10-11-2015, 12:30 PM)SCN-3_NULL Wrote: [ -> ]yeah...that happens if you do the genocide run, it's permanent even with a full data cleanse(because it's linked to your steam cloud)
No need to strike that through, I know what's going on...
My point is that, if I want to completely reset my game, I should be allowed to do so as it is just a game, not reality.
Although, I must say that the method that was used is rather genius.
well you can, the only consequences are changed dialogues as far as i know, but nothing too dramatic.
(10-11-2015, 12:34 PM)Jim_Clonk Wrote: [ -> ]No need to strike that through, I know what's going on...
My point is that, if I want to completely reset my game, I should be allowed to do so as it is just a game, not reality.
Although, I must say that the method that was used is rather genius.
well you can, the only consequences are changed dialogues as far as i know, but nothing too dramatic.
the pacifist ending changed completely after a genocide run
(10-11-2015, 12:39 PM)Jim_Clonk Wrote: [ -> ]As I previously said, the game makes absolutely ridiculously sure that exactly that isn't possible.
(10-11-2015, 12:37 PM)Jim_Clonk Wrote: [ -> ]I know what it's going for, and I appreciate the concept.
It's not about the gameplay, or the puzzles, or the fact that you're playing a rpg and given the option to not slaughter.
Undertale is having the free choice of how you want to treat the game and interact with the world and characters given, but it wouldn't be undertale if it let up on its rule of consistent consequence.
That's for all other games, but not this, because it, unlike most things, defines itself.
(10-11-2015, 12:39 PM)Jim_Clonk Wrote: [ -> ]As I previously said, the game makes absolutely ridiculously sure that exactly that isn't possible.
(10-11-2015, 12:37 PM)Jim_Clonk Wrote: [ -> ]I know what it's going for, and I appreciate the concept.
It's not about the gameplay, or the puzzles, or the fact that you're playing a rpg and given the option to not slaughter.
Undertale is having the free choice of how you want to treat the game and interact with the world and characters given, but it wouldn't be undertale if it let up on its rule of consistent consequence.
That's for all other games, but not this, because it, unlike most things, defines itself.
Unfortunately for it, that goes against my philosophy of what a game is.
(10-11-2015, 12:53 PM)Rukii Wrote: [ -> ]It's not about the gameplay, or the puzzles, or the fact that you're playing a rpg and given the option to not slaughter.
Undertale is having the free choice of how you want to treat the game and interact with the world and characters given, but it wouldn't be undertale if it let up on its rule of consistent consequence.
That's for all other games, but not this, because it, unlike most things, defines itself.
Unfortunately for it, that goes against my philosophy of what a game is.
"Sadly, it doesn't comply with my definitions for what belongs and does not belong in a game"
It is very clearly, just a game.
(10-11-2015, 12:59 PM)Jim_Clonk Wrote: [ -> ]Unfortunately for it, that goes against my philosophy of what a game is.
"Sadly, it doesn't comply with my definitions for what belongs and does not belong in a game"
It is very clearly, just a game.
In what way is it "just a game" if your actions in it are as permanent as they are in reality?
As I've said before, you can't really use this game to escape reality if there's nothing to escape to as it just gives you it's own reality that you can do nothing about.
I might give a more detailed version of my thoughts on this later...
(10-11-2015, 12:39 PM)Jim_Clonk Wrote: [ -> ]As I previously said, the game makes absolutely ridiculously sure that exactly that isn't possible.
I'm like 95% certain you can very easily and that it's just a file in your appdata directory or a registry entry.
It's not magic.
people had tried that and that didnt work, I've heard that some of the game's data is stored on steam cloud, kinda genius but if I remember the method correctly is to force steam cloud to overwrite that file to have a clean reset.
(10-11-2015, 01:17 PM)Rukii Wrote: [ -> ]"Sadly, it doesn't comply with my definitions for what belongs and does not belong in a game"
It is very clearly, just a game.
In what way is it "just a game" if your actions in it are as permanent as they are in reality?
As I've said before, you can't really use this game to escape reality if there's nothing to escape to as it just gives you it's own reality that you can do nothing about.
I might give a more detailed version of my thoughts on this later...
"you can't really use this game to escape reality if there's nothing to escape to"
" as it just gives you it's own reality that you can do nothing about"
"Nothing to escape to"
"It's own reality"
Perhaps it's just too specific of a world for you?
And besides, depending on what... escape you need, there are other games for that, as this is for a few particular sets of experiences people will want to have.
(10-11-2015, 01:24 PM)Segolia Wrote: [ -> ]I'm like 95% certain you can very easily and that it's just a file in your appdata directory or a registry entry.
It's not magic.
people had tried that and that didnt work, I've heard that some of the game's data is stored on steam cloud, kinda genius but if I remember the method correctly is to force steam cloud to overwrite that file to have a clean reset.
From what I've read, not even that is entirely possible.
(10-11-2015, 01:24 PM)Jim_Clonk Wrote: [ -> ]In what way is it "just a game" if your actions in it are as permanent as they are in reality?
As I've said before, you can't really use this game to escape reality if there's nothing to escape to as it just gives you it's own reality that you can do nothing about.
I might give a more detailed version of my thoughts on this later...
"you can't really use this game to escape reality if there's nothing to escape to"
" as it just gives you it's own reality that you can do nothing about"
"Nothing to escape to"
"It's own reality"
Perhaps it's just too specific of a world for you?
And besides, depending on what... escape you need, there are other games for that, as this is for a few particular sets of experiences people will want to have.
Maybe you don't entirely understand the fact that I don't have anything against this game as a whole.
The only thing is that this isn't what I want in a game/what I think a game is. So, perhaps we should simply stop calling it a game and rather call it an "experience", because that it certainly is.
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