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+---- Thread: Ryu's lore and art dump. (/showthread.php?tid=15)
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Gonzogonz - 05-26-2015
i remember it mentioned somewhere that Avali could be more or less dependent on a pack based on how it is raised, now i didn't see Ryuu write this nor did i see it on the wiki, so it might not even be true, but if it is, could it be possible that you could raise an Avali as a loner?
and if so, how would the/an avali society handle them? what kind of jobs are open to only-'Vali?
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Reks - 05-26-2015
(05-26-2015, 06:58 AM)Gonzogonz Wrote: i remember it mentioned somewhere that Avali could be more or less dependent on a pack based on how it is raised, now i didn't see Ryuu write this nor did i see it on the wiki, so it might not even be true, but if it is, could it be possible that you could raise an Avali as a loner?
and if so, how would the/an avali society handle them? what kind of jobs are open to only-'Vali?
Reks the character is a good example of this, from Mourne's story.
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Gonzogonz - 05-26-2015
(05-26-2015, 09:39 AM)Reks Wrote:(05-26-2015, 06:58 AM)Gonzogonz Wrote: i remember it mentioned somewhere that Avali could be more or less dependent on a pack based on how it is raised, now i didn't see Ryuu write this nor did i see it on the wiki, so it might not even be true, but if it is, could it be possible that you could raise an Avali as a loner?
and if so, how would the/an avali society handle them? what kind of jobs are open to only-'Vali?
Reks the character is a good example of this, from Mourne's story.
yeah, i'm just wondering not only how common that would be, but also how viable that 'Vali would be in a normal 'Vali society.
the given lone'Vali having a less sad story than poor Reks.
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Ryuujin - 05-26-2015
(05-26-2015, 11:07 AM)Gonzogonz Wrote:(05-26-2015, 09:39 AM)Reks Wrote: Reks the character is a good example of this, from Mourne's story.
yeah, i'm just wondering not only how common that would be, but also how viable that 'Vali would be in a normal 'Vali society.
the given lone'Vali having a less sad story than poor Reks.
Not very common at all. Biological hardwiring and social structure make it extremely uncommon for an Avali in a normal social environment to not form bonds. The ones that don't bond would have some form of neurological disorder or psychological trauma, have lost their pack at a relatively late age or are raised in an environment with few other Avali.
Even then those individuals wouldn't have particularly productive lives in all probability because an individual Avali isn't particulary "quick" witted (Slower metabolism than humans means slower mental processes. Not stupid, but slower to react and process information. Hence the pack structure and audio processing is important as it is like having a multi-core processor. With multiple minds processing parts of the solution). Avali packs are more than just "packs" like wolves, or prides of lions. But form something of a single unit.
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Gonzogonz - 05-26-2015
(05-26-2015, 12:45 PM)Ryuujin Wrote:(05-26-2015, 11:07 AM)Gonzogonz Wrote: yeah, i'm just wondering not only how common that would be, but also how viable that 'Vali would be in a normal 'Vali society.
the given lone'Vali having a less sad story than poor Reks.
Not very common at all. Biological hardwiring and social structure make it extremely uncommon for an Avali in a normal social environment to not form bonds. The ones that don't bond would have some form of neurological disorder or psychological trauma, have lost their pack at a relatively late age or are raised in an environment with few other Avali.
Even then those individuals wouldn't have particularly productive lives in all probability because an individual Avali isn't particulary "quick" witted (Slower metabolism than humans means slower mental processes. Not stupid, but slower to react and process information. Hence the pack structure and audio processing is important as it is like having a multi-core processor. With multiple minds processing parts of the solution). Avali packs are more than just "packs" like wolves, or prides of lions. But form something of a single unit.
hmm. thought as much. what sort of jobs/professions could a single Avali have? one without a pack, for one reason or another, i mean.
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Comito - 05-27-2015
(05-26-2015, 01:59 PM)Gonzogonz Wrote: hmm. thought as much. what sort of jobs/professions could a single Avali have? one without a pack, for one reason or another, i mean.
Probably one with as much interaction with others as possible. Bartender might be good, assuming they have those.
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Saberuneko - 05-27-2015
(05-27-2015, 01:06 PM)Comito Wrote:Hahaha, IT tech support would fit very well... Dealing with two~three simultaneous calls at the same time... (I had that happening at my old IT job) xD(05-26-2015, 01:59 PM)Gonzogonz Wrote: hmm. thought as much. what sort of jobs/professions could a single Avali have? one without a pack, for one reason or another, i mean.
Probably one with as much interaction with others as possible. Bartender might be good, assuming they have those.
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Ryuujin - 05-27-2015
(05-27-2015, 08:00 PM)Saberuneko Wrote:(05-27-2015, 01:06 PM)Comito Wrote: Probably one with as much interaction with others as possible. Bartender might be good, assuming they have those.Hahaha, IT tech support would fit very well... Dealing with two~three simultaneous calls at the same time... (I had that happening at my old IT job) xD
The answer to all of them is "Have you tried pushing the on button" or "Have you tried rebooting it?"
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Reks - 05-28-2015
(05-27-2015, 01:06 PM)Comito Wrote:(05-26-2015, 01:59 PM)Gonzogonz Wrote: hmm. thought as much. what sort of jobs/professions could a single Avali have? one without a pack, for one reason or another, i mean.
Probably one with as much interaction with others as possible. Bartender might be good, assuming they have those.
Reks was a musician, and without grandstanding of my own characters, was popular enough that she was never really 'alone'.
But yes, that leads me to my actual question.
How ARE packless Avali treated, in terms of governmental affairs? As in, since they can't really bond, I don't imagine they'd be capable of the work a full pack would provide, and from what you've told me there's not a whole lot else because mechanical labor.
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Ryuujin - 05-28-2015
(05-28-2015, 06:17 AM)Reks Wrote:(05-27-2015, 01:06 PM)Comito Wrote: Probably one with as much interaction with others as possible. Bartender might be good, assuming they have those.
Reks was a musician, and without grandstanding of my own characters, was popular enough that she was never really 'alone'.
But yes, that leads me to my actual question.
How ARE packless Avali treated, in terms of governmental affairs? As in, since they can't really bond, I don't imagine they'd be capable of the work a full pack would provide, and from what you've told me there's not a whole lot else because mechanical labor.
The Avali are already something of a post-labour/post-scarcity race. In such an economy a fairly significant portion of the population don't even have regular jobs anyway, but can be supported to a degree that everyone can enjoy a decent lifestyle, thanks to the vast production capabilities such an advanced race holds. In such an environment the value of labour is effectively zero, and opting to work brings other benefits than economic ones*. As such there isn't such a huge stigma if an Avali found themselves without a pack and unable to work. It'd just put them in the same position as the rest of the population (Not to say they'll be happy about the situation if they enjoyed their old line of work).
They might still be able to get placement in other related roles, like an old hunter might get re-enlisted as a training supervisor to pass on his experiences to the next generation of recruits.
* As in one poignant scene in Dresden Codak, when the singularity "guardian" AI is approached by non-augmented humans and asked to help them, it simply responds "I can give you anything but relevance", which is a true hazard of future technology. And why labour-orientated economics are risky going forward, even today the labour market is beginning to show signs of trouble.
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Gonzogonz - 05-28-2015
so. how well can Avali make AI? if they can't make a fully 100% completely true AI of +100 realness, what is the closest thing?
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Ryuujin - 05-28-2015
(05-28-2015, 03:53 PM)Gonzogonz Wrote: so. how well can Avali make AI? if they can't make a fully 100% completely true AI of +100 realness, what is the closest thing?
Define "realness". If you mean "can pass a Turing test", that really isn't so hard anymore and isn't a good measure anyway, because if you built a robot who's sole purpose is to pass a turing test - to converse with an examiner. What you probably end up with a robot that can talk well, but is no more sentient than a machine built for hoovering the carpet or playing chess.
The word AI is also far too often associated with "strong AI", AI so effective and so general that it's hard to refute the possibility the AI is actually sentient, it thinks, it speaks it solves problems, learns and creates new ideas. When actually AI exists in many forms, weak AI that exists as purely digital systems that sort data, or firmware to help calculate an aircraft's numerous control surfaces, based on gross command inputs from the pilot. To general AI that can carry out complex tasks and learn new tasks and tricks form trial and error, but is still not sentient.
AI of varying levels are employed by the Avali throughout their tech, most of it very minor and specialised (ie. controlling lighting, power distribution, security etc in a habitat). More advanced AI would cover things like drones and medical robots, which have the framework needed to carry out complex, but specialised tasks based on simple user input ("Loosen these bolts, remove this maintenance panel. Wait for my next input once I've seen inside"), or personal assistants and protocol drones that can provide reminders, instruction or assist in day to day tasks. These are pretty much general AI's, but are still far from "alive".
Probably the most interesting application of AI I envision the Avali using is as data parsing in tandem with their neural augmentation and Nexus link. A suitably augmented individual could pass requests to an "assistant AI" which takes recent input (ie an unfamiliar word), and pulls up a suitable article explaining it, or examine the inventory manifests and determine if an engineer has the component he needs to carry out repairs; even offering to autonomously place requisition orders for the missing parts if needed.
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Gonzogonz - 05-28-2015
(05-28-2015, 05:33 PM)Ryuujin Wrote:(05-28-2015, 03:53 PM)Gonzogonz Wrote: so. how well can Avali make AI? if they can't make a fully 100% completely true AI of +100 realness, what is the closest thing?
Define "realness". If you mean "can pass a Turing test", that really isn't so hard anymore and isn't a good measure anyway, because if you built a robot who's sole purpose is to pass a turing test - to converse with an examiner. What you probably end up with a robot that can talk well, but is no more sentient than a machine built for hoovering the carpet or playing chess.
The word AI is also far too often associated with "strong AI", AI so effective and so general that it's hard to refute the possibility the AI is actually sentient, it thinks, it speaks it solves problems, learns and creates new ideas. When actually AI exists in many forms, weak AI that exists as purely digital systems that sort data, or firmware to help calculate an aircraft's numerous control surfaces, based on gross command inputs from the pilot. To general AI that can carry out complex tasks and learn new tasks and tricks form trial and error, but is still not sentient.
AI of varying levels are employed by the Avali throughout their tech, most of it very minor and specialised (ie. controlling lighting, power distribution, security etc in a habitat). More advanced AI would cover things like drones and medical robots, which have the framework needed to carry out complex, but specialised tasks based on simple user input ("Loosen these bolts, remove this maintenance panel. Wait for my next input once I've seen inside"), or personal assistants and protocol drones that can provide reminders, instruction or assist in day to day tasks. These are pretty much general AI's, but are still far from "alive".
Probably the most interesting application of AI I envision the Avali using is as data parsing in tandem with their neural augmentation and Nexus link. A suitably augmented individual could pass requests to an "assistant AI" which takes recent input (ie an unfamiliar word), and pulls up a suitable article explaining it, or examine the inventory manifests and determine if an engineer has the component he needs to carry out repairs; even offering to autonomously place requisition orders for the missing parts if needed.
what i meant was how sentient can Avali make AIs?
all i want is for a group of AI to play DnD and make an animated show of it '~'
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Ryuujin - 05-29-2015
(05-28-2015, 06:01 PM)Gonzogonz Wrote:tl;dr then.(05-28-2015, 05:33 PM)Ryuujin Wrote: <snip>
all i want is for a group of AI to play DnD and make an animated show of it '~'
Could they make an AI that plays DnD? - Absolutely. Could they make a general AI, that might spontaneously decide it wants to play DnD? - Probably, though such general AI's arn't widely used. Would it be sentient? - Probably not.
"My warforged artificer replaced all his fingers with magic wands. It seemed like the most practical solution"
(And now he can explode things by flipping them off)
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Gonzogonz - 05-29-2015
what sort of jokes do Avali have i wonder...
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Nyumii - 05-29-2015
(05-29-2015, 12:43 PM)Gonzogonz Wrote: what sort of jokes do Avali have i wonder...
I'd wager that they have stuff regarding snow, ice, predators/prey, ice-picks, getting corked in a crevasse, antics involving avalanches, techie-related jokes, internet/Nexus-born jokes, stuff involving weird/bad music, stories of that moron who thinks they're hot shit because they've done it all in a sim a million times... What's not to like?
On a more morbid note, how does an Avali pack mourn the loss of one of their packmates, both in the case of death from natural causes and in the case of having died 'before their time'? What sort of traditions regarding this are prevalent throughout Avali society and its respective branches (civilian, military, Oracle cults, etc)?
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Ryuujin - 05-29-2015
They might certainly have some variations on colourful language, like describing someone as having 'snow in their cloaca' if they're an abrasive asshole
- I'm not an expert on how alien humour might work, human humour is odd but tends to be orientated around drawing attention to how silly life and normality is, either by over-playing it, or simply calling out the elephant in the room.As for death rituals, that's not something I've given much thought to, it all depends on how an alien grieving process would work. I don't understand how the HUMAN grieving process works...
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Comito - 05-30-2015
Found this picture on the internet and it gave me a question. All drones you've shown so far are airborne; are there also terrestrial or aquatic drones?
![[Image: oDgAZQQl.png]](http://i.imgbox.com/oDgAZQQl.png)
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Ryuujin - 05-30-2015
(05-30-2015, 09:53 PM)Comito Wrote: Found this picture on the internet and it gave me a question. All drones you've shown so far are airborne; are there also terrestrial or aquatic drones?Yes. They have the tech for flying drones and so they are used in a huge amount of roles since they are so practical and small. But when heavier lifting is involved, or robust construction, then ground drones or various shapes exist (humanoids, quads like the one you linked, etc). There's also some overlap between drones and mecha since the mechs designed to house a person inside (Well, Avali) can operate independently of a pilot, the operator could be OUTSIDE the mech, and it's taking instructions remotely like the drones (Defend here, attack this, grab this etc).
One of the codices I meant to finish up was a report by a hostile force who downed and captured a mech, only to be left scratching their head when they can't find the pilot
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Gonzogonz - 05-31-2015
(05-30-2015, 09:53 PM)Comito Wrote: Found this picture on the internet and it gave me a question. All drones you've shown so far are airborne; are there also terrestrial or aquatic drones?
gotta love Deus Ex: Human Revelution.
(05-30-2015, 10:14 PM)Ryuujin Wrote:(05-30-2015, 09:53 PM)Comito Wrote: Found this picture on the internet and it gave me a question. All drones you've shown so far are airborne; are there also terrestrial or aquatic drones?Yes. They have the tech for flying drones and so they are used in a huge amount of roles since they are so practical and small. But when heavier lifting is involved, or robust construction, then ground drones or various shapes exist (humanoids, quads like the one you linked, etc). There's also some overlap between drones and mecha since the mechs designed to house a person inside (Well, Avali) can operate independently of a pilot, the operator could be OUTSIDE the mech, and it's taking instructions remotely like the drones (Defend here, attack this, grab this etc).
One of the codices I meant to finish up was a report by a hostile force who downed and captured a mech, only to be left scratching their head when they can't find the pilot
well, what about the aquatic?