+- Avali Nexus (http://avalinexus.seraphimlabs.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Nexus General (http://avalinexus.seraphimlabs.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Avali Nexus General (http://avalinexus.seraphimlabs.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=2)
+---- Forum: User Created Content (http://avalinexus.seraphimlabs.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+---- Thread: Ryu's lore and art dump. (/showthread.php?tid=15)
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Ryuujin - 05-31-2015
Aquatic is rather a given. Aquatic drones are just flying drones with stronger torque, a ballast system and watertight chassis. Humans had aquatic drones long before they had flying ones.
On a related note, liquid ammonia is only around half as dense as water, it'd take a bit more effort to stay afloat in ammonia than water. Though the Avali's feathers would do a lot to help buoyancy
UPDATE: Added new experimental doodle demonstrating proof of concept for flying posture.
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Nyumii - 05-31-2015
(05-31-2015, 05:34 PM)Ryuujin Wrote: Aquatic is rather a given. Aquatic drones are just flying drones with stronger torque and watertight chassis.
UPDATE: Added new experimental doodle demonstrating proof of concept for flying posture.
I guess, given the Avali's tech level, that aquatic drones/mechs would be capable of submerging to great depths and holding up to excessive water pressure, whether remote-controlled or manned?
And just to clear something up, with Avalon's lower gravity and thicker atmosphere, are the Avali capable of full flight or just gliding?
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Ryuujin - 05-31-2015
(05-31-2015, 05:50 PM)Nyumii Wrote:(05-31-2015, 05:34 PM)Ryuujin Wrote: Aquatic is rather a given. Aquatic drones are just flying drones with stronger torque and watertight chassis.
UPDATE: Added new experimental doodle demonstrating proof of concept for flying posture.
I guess, given the Avali's tech level, that aquatic drones/mechs would be capable of submerging to great depths and holding up to excessive water pressure, whether remote-controlled or manned?
And just to clear something up, with Avalon's lower gravity and thicker atmosphere, are the Avali capable of full flight or just gliding?
Full flight. I originally only intended them to glide until I saw an engineer's analysis that on Titan a human could fly briefly if they flapped their arms hard enough, so Avali can DEFINITELY fly with a lot of control.
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Nyumii - 05-31-2015
(05-31-2015, 05:53 PM)Ryuujin Wrote:(05-31-2015, 05:50 PM)Nyumii Wrote: I guess, given the Avali's tech level, that aquatic drones/mechs would be capable of submerging to great depths and holding up to excessive water pressure, whether remote-controlled or manned?
And just to clear something up, with Avalon's lower gravity and thicker atmosphere, are the Avali capable of full flight or just gliding?
Full flight. I originally only intended them to glide until I saw an engineer's analysis that on Titan a human could fly briefly if they flapped their arms hard enough, so Avali can DEFINITELY fly with a lot of control.
Hmm, with that sort of movement capability, their architectural design would get pretty interesting, especially for larger and more permanent structures on their homeworld. Not much of a need for stairs when you can just fly to the next floor of the building, unless you're doing some heavy-lifting.
Does Avalon's parent world have any other moons orbiting it (and if so, where does Avalon sit in relation to them)? What is the angular diameter of the gas giant on Avalon's tide-locked side of the sky, in comparison to the angular diameter of Earth's moon (at 31 arcmin // 1/2 of a degree)?
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Shaadaris - 06-01-2015
On the topic of permanent/large-scale settlements, does Avalon have many?
The large majority of the race is nomadic from my understanding, so what's the common view on larger, more permanent settlements?
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Hetuni - 06-01-2015
Since I was never able to get a reply before--Why would an Avali require to have clothing to protect in somewhat colder climates (Such as ones where Ammonia freezes) in Avalon?
Is it really just THAT cold or is their down not very effective with being an insulator for that... After all they aren't exactly endothermic last I checked, so that wouldn't be a problem...
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Comito - 06-01-2015
(06-01-2015, 08:48 AM)Hetuni Wrote: Since I was never able to get a reply before--Why would an Avali require to have clothing to protect in somewhat colder climates (Such as ones where Ammonia freezes) in Avalon?
Is it really just THAT cold or is their down not very effective with being an insulator for that... After all they aren't exactly endothermic last I checked, so that wouldn't be a problem...
I thought they WERE endothermic.
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Ryuujin - 06-01-2015
(05-31-2015, 06:08 PM)Nyumii Wrote:(05-31-2015, 05:53 PM)Ryuujin Wrote: Full flight. I originally only intended them to glide until I saw an engineer's analysis that on Titan a human could fly briefly if they flapped their arms hard enough, so Avali can DEFINITELY fly with a lot of control.
Does Avalon's parent world have any other moons orbiting it (and if so, where does Avalon sit in relation to them)? What is the angular diameter of the gas giant on Avalon's tide-locked side of the sky, in comparison to the angular diameter of Earth's moon (at 31 arcmin // 1/2 of a degree)?
Presumably it does have other moons, gas giants usually trap multiple, but most of these questions are beyond the details I've settled on :p
(06-01-2015, 06:15 AM)Shaadaris Wrote: On the topic of permanent/large-scale settlements, does Avalon have many?Permanent settlements exist on the homeworld in the rare places bedrock is accessible but are generally limited to government and core infrastructure rather than habitation. Habitation there is generally short tenancy for those working at those facilities and something a badge of pride for those who've been assigned those roles.
The large majority of the race is nomadic from my understanding, so what's the common view on larger, more permanent settlements?
(06-01-2015, 08:48 AM)Hetuni Wrote: Since I was never able to get a reply before--Why would an Avali require to have clothing to protect in somewhat colder climates (Such as ones where Ammonia freezes) in Avalon?Firstly just because ammonia freezes at a certain temperature it doesn't mean their biology would handle it well. Water found in human tissue freezes at 0 celcius. But you can suffer hypothermia just by standing naked in 18 celcius for a while, because your enzymes and body's systems only operate in a relative narrow core temperature range. You're correct to point out their insulation would give them a broader range of survivable temperatures by stabilising their core body temperature, but the planet's ambient temperature is often already relatively low with respect to their core temperature (If it were higher they'd be in constant danger of embolism, the range that ammonia is liquid in is much smaller than that of water), so reducing ambient temperature a great deal farther would make them too cold (ie when approaching the polar regions)
Is it really just THAT cold or is their down not very effective with being an insulator for that... After all they aren't exactly endothermic last I checked, so that wouldn't be a problem...
The truly arctic side of Avalon (the side tidally locked to the parent planet, which is NOT a pole), hasn't seen direct sunlight in eons and never will again. Temperatures there would be insane (Likely in the region of -180 to -200C at it's core!), to venture that far even Avali'd need environmental suits.
(06-01-2015, 12:57 PM)Comito Wrote:Endothermic, "warm" blooded :p - it gets confusing because an EXOthermic reaction generates heat, yet ENDOthermic is used to describe animals that generate heat... don't make much sense does it. ('warm' blooded might seem a misnomer for a creature with a core body temperature around -40, but it generates it's own energy and that keeps it's core body stable and above the background temperature)(06-01-2015, 08:48 AM)Hetuni Wrote: Since I was never able to get a reply before--Why would an Avali require to have clothing to protect in somewhat colder climates (Such as ones where Ammonia freezes) in Avalon?
Is it really just THAT cold or is their down not very effective with being an insulator for that... After all they aren't exactly endothermic last I checked, so that wouldn't be a problem...
I thought they WERE endothermic.
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Hetuni - 06-01-2015
(06-01-2015, 02:23 PM)Ryuujin Wrote: -snip-
I--Think you didn't see the point I was going towards...
If I remember correctly, Avali have down, which is an extremely good heat insulator... And this is where I also feel the similarity to humans should end, due to them not having that kind of heat insulation naturally. Take for instance what would probably be most birds on Earth--the main reason they ever go out of the colder climates is for food, and not because they get very cold.
What I'm trying to get at here is their survivability in temperatures somewhat below the freezing point, would they have at least enough protection to be there for decent periods of time (Say what we relate to 24 hours.) without just freezing to death? And I do know that down doesn't really just trap the heat, just prevents it from being transfered quickly... But ultimately this is your decision here due to it being a fictional thing owned by you, so I don't have any real say here.
Let me just take a moment to say this though...
I really love what you've done here, and it's actually something that has changed my life so far a bit... Meeting up in this community is something that I am really happy I did, and it's because of your hobby.
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Ryuujin - 06-01-2015
(06-01-2015, 04:03 PM)Hetuni Wrote:(06-01-2015, 02:23 PM)Ryuujin Wrote: -snip-
If I remember correctly, Avali have down, which is an extremely good heat insulator... And this is where I also feel the similarity to humans should end, due to them not having that kind of heat insulation naturally. Take for instance what would probably be most birds on Earth--the main reason they ever go out of the colder climates is for food, and not because they get very cold.
What I'm trying to get at here is their survivability in temperatures somewhat below the freezing point, would they have at least enough protection to be there for decent periods of time (Say what we relate to 24 hours.) without just freezing to death?
Seems like there's some unspoken context here. Where exactly did you get the idea they were particularly sensitive to cold anyway?
When I mention that Avali are somewhat resistant to freezing injury on the wiki that's in the context of having tissues literally frozen solid (equivalent to human frostbite) rather than exposure to sub-freezing temperatures. The mention in a bit of flavour text in one of the codices is referring the super-arctic hemisphere of the planet (Which at it's core isn't all that far above absolute zero), I'd also mentioned their probable core temperature range, I don't remember explictly listing what the lower temperature range they can survive in is (I havn't even fully calculated it myself).
I just had a brain storm!
For a long time I've been very bothered by the fact the homeworld would spend long periods of time in total darkness. Temperatures would vary wildly between night and day and this bothered me a LOT.
It just occurred to me that if Avalon was not a typical moon, but rather more like a trojan, locked at the planet's L1 point, and still tidally locked, you'd have a (relatively) hot desert side (permanent day), and keep the super-arctic tidally locked side (permanent night). This'd keep the average surface temperatures stable, and also provide even more stable surface winds than I originally envisioned.
It'd also lead to some slightly more interesting surface environments (You'd have a super arctic side, a very very arid desert side. With a neat temperature gradient from one side to the other. As you approach the equatorial line between the two hemispheres, you'd have extremely intense surface winds that always from the cold side to hot side (In the upper atmosphere this cycle would go the other way, from hot to cold), probably carrying with it clouds/snow. There'd probably also be a lot of jagged glaciers in this region
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Nyumii - 06-02-2015
(06-01-2015, 06:39 PM)Ryuujin Wrote: I just had a brain storm!
Huh, guess that explains all the rainy weather we've been having lately.
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - The-Wolfster - 06-02-2015
This is all very very curious and I'm really intruiged by all of this new information, as well as the broader spectrum of possibilities when it comes to Avali adaption in storytelling (I have been playing too much DnD).
...
...I don't really have any questions. I'm just enjoying learning a lot more about these guys and gals you've made
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - The-Wolfster - 06-07-2015
...Actually yeah that's a weird question which my friend brought up. Hydrogen(H2) has no dipole, which is useful for the binding and unbinding of molecules when carried through the bloodstream. Some other questions which lead further up and down the line are thing such as "what's the exchange organ" and "what's the waste product". With ammonia-based blood, how exactly does this work?
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Ryuujin - 06-07-2015
(06-07-2015, 01:31 AM)The-Wolfster Wrote: ...Actually yeah that's a weird question which my friend brought up. Hydrogen(H2) has no dipole, which is useful for the binding and unbinding of molecules when carried through the bloodstream. Some other questions which lead further up and down the line are thing such as "what's the exchange organ" and "what's the waste product". With ammonia-based blood, how exactly does this work?
Gawd, I had this worked out at some point but I don't remember off the top of my head now or where I put the information, their full biochemistry I havn't worked out in full and I doubt it's particularly sound. But in principle Avali are methanogenic is the main thing to note and exhale methane, I have a feeling the mechanism I had in mind back then involved hydrogen/nitrogen -> acetylene/hydrogen cyanide dissociation and so get a major portion of their energy just from breathing. Food is mostly for building materials so to speak. (Huh... so their blood is toxic as hell to humans, hadn't considered that detail.). I have never fully formalised their internal anatomical structures (Let' just call it squeedly spooch and move on), though you can safely surmise there's a lung, heart and digestive system analogues
I think sometimes people over-focus on the little details and miss the greater premise of the race, that it was an examination of how an alien species might approach familiar things in a different way, rather than a complete analysis of biochemistry, astrophysics etc. generally if something is mentioned in detail it's because I have a good idea I wanted to try out, if it's passed over then I didn't have any particularly novel details to add to the topic.
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Gonzogonz - 06-07-2015
so, how advanced is Avali gene science?
like can they clone stuff and make fake genes for things? would make for some interesting ideas.
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Comito - 06-08-2015
Do they make use of sound-based weaponry?
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Ryuujin - 06-08-2015
(06-08-2015, 01:31 PM)Comito Wrote: Do they make use of sound-based weaponry?
I had pondered whether to make that a thing. Sonic "weapons" for purposes of damaging stuff isn't very practical. Sound as a tool to disable thing is of mixed usefulness Vs Avali. Their hearing is harder to damage due to physilogical differences in their ears - a conventional flashbang would have almost no effect on them. COnversely though those same reflex actions and differences means constant, loud noises, could be used to heavily impact their spacial awareness and co-ordination (Think a super powered air horn with the button held down).
Humans in range of an anti-avali "horn" would find it very unpleasant and might actually hurt their hearing permanently if exposed for too long. While Avali might realise the value of flashbangs in combating other races, given the minimal impact it has on themselves.
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Saberuneko - 06-10-2015
I have a small question about Avali communication that I have been thinking about for a long while...
From what I can remember (correct me if I remember wrong), all members of the pack talk to eachother at the same time when communicating. If two packs talk with eachother, there's a "representer" or, better said "messenger" that communicates the stuff to the other pack... Something like this:
![[Image: 3yClIlL.png]](http://i.imgur.com/3yClIlL.png)
My question comes in the case of more than two packs interacting at the same time...
How would communication organize, if still going simmultaneously? Would all representers group up in some kind of "higher level" conversation? like this:
![[Image: e4YSKBn.png]](http://i.imgur.com/e4YSKBn.png)
Or would they take turns in some way when there's too many individuals communicating?
Also, if they keep going on simmultaneously... could the "communication array" keep assembing in different levels?
![[Image: BlLklB9.png]](http://i.imgur.com/BlLklB9.png)
I guess that when communication goes too massive in numbers, they'd use the Nexus itself to communicate... but it makes me wonder how could had they handled communication before they created/invented the Nexus.
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Ryuujin - 06-10-2015
(06-10-2015, 02:15 PM)Saberuneko Wrote: I have a small question about Avali communication that I have been thinking about for a long while...
<snip>
You raise an interesting point I hadn't considered. Yes the assumption is each pack has a representative/alpha/speaker* (baring in mind each pack often forms it's own internal shorthands and memes to communicate ideas quicker. Since packs are together a lot, they often share experiences, and thus have their own internal references that mean nothing to an outsider. For example if I were to say something "is a real 169'r" I think most people in the Avali community would understand the reference - a true example of a meme.
But when communicating inter-pack, the speaker needs to be able to communicate clearly and eloquently using their primary language.
However, I hadn't pondered how this'd work in a larger framework. That it might be possible to create a tiered hierachy where the speakers themselves then form a second layer of concensus, which is in turn passed to another speaker.
One option given the lack of memetic speech between each speaker, it might be most practical for each of the speakers to report their information to a member of a secondary pack for further co-processing.
However that option may lose some of the nuance given information relayed to a secondary individual will lack the original context. Having the speakers interact as a psuedo-pack may help retain nuanced knowledge but will be processed a little slower due to a lack of shared memetics (unless this is some kind've regular council who meet regularly.)
Avali: The real hive-mind :p
*I hesitate to use the word "alpha" because the best at listening/speaking for the pack, might not necessarily be the pack member the others turn to for direction when it matters.
RE: Ryu's lore and art dump. - Nyumii - 06-11-2015
So I've read that Avalon's ocean life can potentially grow much bigger in size than the large herbivores on the surface, and that there is at least one predatory species called the leviathans that are apparently massive enough to smash through thin areas in the ice shelf to hunt some of their prey. Just how large are these leviathans on average, and how much of a threat would one be to a modern-day Avali pack that is out in the wilderness and unaware that they are on its menu? One would assume that their society would have developed ways of detecting one before it pounced.
And with much of the world's marine fauna being able to grow to such large sizes, do the seas play host to a substantial number of predators, and has this stigmatized them to the Avali as a global case of 'shark-infested waters', or probably more likely, 'here there be dragons'?