Avali Nexus

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(08-17-2016, 04:14 PM)Shaadaris Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-17-2016, 09:31 AM)SCN-3_NULL Wrote: [ -> ]US army standard issue bolt action Rifle, M1903 Springfield(1903-1974)
-INFORMATION-

Holy moly! Was not expecting this detailed of an answer! Thank you very much~


(08-17-2016, 09:36 AM)Sirius-R Wrote: [ -> ]So this place isn't about Avali anymore?

...

now where's that big red "EMERGENCY GTFO EJECT" button?
ah, found it *click*
-fwooosh-
*fwooosh*

Noooooooo!
I shouldn't have opened my mouth tapped my fingers...
there's also a bullpup variant that looks more like a stick staff
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This is Toni. She's had a rough life, but she's got a lot of experience behind her thanks to that, I don't know where the colony would be without her.
[Image: 5a21defb57c810e957c8fd3bb8a520aa.png]
She's had some REALLY bad days, but it's okay, we have been able to rebuild her each time.
[Image: ba407b4bd11b6e6bda48d6e05372bab5.png]
Yup, without Toni the colony would be in really bad shape.
I wonder, if the medieval war hammer is used to defeat an armored knight/soldier, I wonder how will that apply to modern equivalent like tanks(MBT/LT) or even power armor units, how will these modernize war hammer would look like/addition to make it effective against modern armored units.
(08-17-2016, 05:36 PM)SCN-3_NULL Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder, if the medieval war hammer is used to defeat an armored knight/soldier, I wonder how will that apply to modern equivalent like tanks(MBT/LT) or even power armor units, how will these modernize war hammer would look like/addition to make it effective against modern armored units.

War hammers aren't actually very useful compared to bladed weapons honestly, for defeating armor an axe is better.
(08-17-2016, 05:41 PM)Surge Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-17-2016, 05:36 PM)SCN-3_NULL Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder, if the medieval war hammer is used to defeat an armored knight/soldier, I wonder how will that apply to modern equivalent like tanks(MBT/LT) or even power armor units, how will these modernize war hammer would look like/addition to make it effective against modern armored units.

War hammers aren't actually very useful compared to bladed weapons honestly, for defeating armor an axe is better.

I'm not sure, I mean there was a technique in medieval times where the user uses the hand guard/hilt of a sword by grabbing the blade area and swing it to an armored knight because the blade isnt going to do anything with the armor but the hand guard/hilt blunt will.
[Image: Augsburg_Cod.I.6.4º.2_(Codex_Wallerstein)_107v.jpg]
(08-17-2016, 06:00 PM)SCN-3_NULL Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-17-2016, 05:41 PM)Surge Wrote: [ -> ]War hammers aren't actually very useful compared to bladed weapons honestly, for defeating armor an axe is better.

I'm not sure, I mean there was a technique in medieval times where the user uses the hand guard/hilt of a sword by grabbing the blade area and swing it to an armored knight because the blade isnt going to do anything with the armor but the hand guard/hilt blunt will.
Snip

An axe is fundamentally different than a sword though. All of the power is concentrated at the top, making for a heavier swing and a much less flimsy weapon. The smaller surface area of the impact compared to a hammer or even sword also means more force. I don't think it's a stretch that it'd be better than a hammer at getting through heavy armor. Granted, a hammer is still very good against heavy armor, as it can dent it, which, well, is not pleasant for the person inside to say the least.

Technically, the ideal melee weapon to use against heavy metal armor would be a big war pick of some sort, as due to the tiny surface area and high center of mass, it'd punch through the stuff like a fist through paper.
(08-17-2016, 06:13 PM)Shaadaris Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-17-2016, 06:00 PM)SCN-3_NULL Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure, I mean there was a technique in medieval times where the user uses the hand guard/hilt of a sword by grabbing the blade area and swing it to an armored knight because the blade isnt going to do anything with the armor but the hand guard/hilt blunt will.
Snip

An axe is fundamentally different than a sword though. All of the power is concentrated at the top, making for a heavier swing and a much less flimsy weapon. The smaller surface area of the impact compared to a hammer or even sword also means more force. I don't think it's a stretch that it'd be better than a hammer at getting through heavy armor. Granted, a hammer is still very good against heavy armor, as it can dent it, which, well, is not pleasant for the person inside to say the least.

Technically, the ideal melee weapon to use against heavy metal armor would be a big war pick of some sort, as due to the tiny surface area and high center of mass, it'd punch through the stuff like a fist through paper.

As the gradual shift to heavily armored soldiers happened people constantly adapted to the point where swords became purely ornamental.  being useless against anything more than armed peasants.  And even then, thick leathers or linens that were worn as standard clothing such as gambesons disrupted even that.  Eventually the standard army were equipped with flanged mace' and wooden round shields or spears as the standard equipment for militaries.  With individual members buying what they would otherwise if they could afford it.  Fights between heavily armored soldiers often devolved into fisticuffs with knives/daggers in the absence of weapons that could ignore soft armor or ruin metal armor as it was the only way to get a telling blow on them and was easier that trying to get your tip past their armor.  Although useful against lightly armored archers.  Other methods in the absence of anything but a sword are half swording and as null said, using your sword as a club.  There are others, but I won't claim to know everything.

Picks get stuck, and don't actually do much damage.  Just use a flanged mace, or morning star, or even a studded cudgel.  It's cheaper, more trustworthy, easier to use, and more effective in general against light and heavy armors.

Also, that image shows clubbing AND half swording.  Guy on the left is half swording to try getting a pierce.

So in terms of current military. Armor will always be better and more important than weapons. As weapons are adapted to deal with better armor rather than the other way around.
If I may ask,

why is Rinoah so edgy?
(08-18-2016, 12:07 AM)kawaiiChiimera Wrote: [ -> ]If I may ask,

why is Rinoah so edgy?
^^^^
You said it first not me!
(08-18-2016, 12:07 AM)kawaiiChiimera Wrote: [ -> ]If I may ask,

why is Rinoah so edgy?
Because edgy is a weird and subjective thing. Personally I would define it as "edge for edge's sake" which sounds vague and unhelpful phrased like that but it doesn't really bear explanation further in this context so MOVING ON. Some people would define edgy just by pointing at me; not very social, apathetic, passive aggressive, and a bit matter-of-factual. Though that kinda turns a "why are you like this?" insult into "haha this faggot is different" but again, my opinion.

Basically what I'm getting at here is to just think of Rinoah as a me without the colorfully crude sense of humor.

No offense Rinoah.
(08-18-2016, 12:23 AM)Surge Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-18-2016, 12:07 AM)kawaiiChiimera Wrote: [ -> ]If I may ask,

why is Rinoah so edgy?
Because edgy is a weird and subjective thing. Personally I would define it as "edge for edge's sake" which sounds vague and unhelpful phrased like that but it doesn't really bear explanation further in this context so MOVING ON. Some people would define edgy just by pointing at me; not very social, apathetic, passive aggressive, and a bit matter-of-factual. Though that kinda turns a "why are you like this?" insult into "haha this faggot is different" but again, my opinion.

Basically what I'm getting at here is to just think of Rinoah as a me without the colorfully crude sense of humor.

No offense Rinoah.
I don't care for the snark.

https://youtu.be/JOlY8XT8GOE
(08-18-2016, 12:33 AM)SCN-3_NULL Wrote: [ -> ]Trench coats and umbreon
[Image: tumblr_oc2nvoctMn1v6ju9to1_540.png]
http://briteeveedoodles.tumblr.com/post/149094718196
I approve strongly!
Also back to the hammer vs armor topic, I'm not sure was it too crazy to defeat mordern armor, a modernized war hammer should it be kinda single use atleast for the head as it holds an explosive shaped charge? Or even a make shift revolver cannon that holds APFSDS/APDS/HVAP/HEAT ammunition in a short barrel and fired upon impact?
I'm blunt and I know it.  It deals directly with my difficulty in understanding figures of speech as well.  If I can skip the entire conversation by simply pointing out the facts, I will do so.  Not because I dislike anyone or dislike conversation, but because it's more efficient than letting it go on meaninglessly.

So, none taken.  In fact it's more of a compliment than anything.  

If it's any consolation I've been repeatedly compared to Spock from Star Trek.

SCN-3_NULL Wrote:   
   Also back to the hammer vs armor topic, I'm not sure was it too crazy to defeat mordern armor, a modernized war hammer should it be kinda single use atleast for the head as it holds an explosive shaped charge? Or even a make shift revolver cannon that holds APFSDS/APDS/HVAP/HEAT ammunition in a short barrel and fired upon impact?

Why not just apply plastic explosives directly in between plates or to the crew cover and set it off at that point?  It's cheaper by far, and more effective thanks to very likely killing/KOing the crew without even having to take out the vehicle due to concussive energy transference.

We have things more effective currently already for the specifics of current armor, as it was developed for that purpose.
(08-18-2016, 12:41 AM)Lost Rinoah Wrote: [ -> ]I'm blunt and I know it.  It deals directly with my difficulty in understanding figures of speech as well.  If I can skip the entire conversation by simply pointing out the facts, I will do so.  Not because I dislike anyone or dislike conversation, but because it's more efficient than letting it go on meaninglessly.

So, none taken.  In fact it's more of a compliment than anything.  

If it's any consolation I've been repeatedly compared to Spock from Star Trek.

Quote: SCN-3_NULL
Also back to the hammer vs armor topic, I'm not sure was it too crazy to defeat mordern armor, a modernized war hammer should it be kinda single use atleast for the head as it holds an explosive shaped charge? Or even a make shift revolver cannon that holds APFSDS/APDS/HVAP/HEAT ammunition in a short barrel and fired upon impact?

Why not just apply plastic explosives directly in between plates or to the crew cover and set it off at that point? It's cheaper by far, and more effective thanks to very likely killing/KOing the crew without even having to take out the vehicle due to concussive energy transference.

We have things more effective currently already for the specifics of current armor, as it was developed for that purpose.

I completely understand as I'm in a similar situation. Knowing that I won't judge so harshly in the future.
(08-18-2016, 12:41 AM)Lost Rinoah Wrote: [ -> ]I'm blunt and I know it.  It deals directly with my difficulty in understanding figures of speech as well.  If I can skip the entire conversation by simply pointing out the facts, I will do so.  Not because I dislike anyone or dislike conversation, but because it's more efficient than letting it go on meaninglessly.

So, none taken.  In fact it's more of a compliment than anything.  

If it's any consolation I've been repeatedly compared to Spock from Star Trek.



SCN-3_NULL Wrote:   
   Also back to the hammer vs armor topic, I'm not sure was it too crazy to defeat mordern armor, a modernized war hammer should it be kinda single use atleast for the head as it holds an explosive shaped charge? Or even a make shift revolver cannon that holds APFSDS/APDS/HVAP/HEAT ammunition in a short barrel and fired upon impact?

Why not just apply plastic explosives directly in between plates or to the crew cover and set it off at that point?  It's cheaper by far, and more effective thanks to very likely killing/KOing the crew without even having to take out the vehicle due to concussive energy transference.

We have things more effective currently already for the specifics of current armor, as it was developed for that purpose.
That....does actually makes more sense, but HESH shells already kinda do that, in range too, although dont most modern tanks already have spall lining to prevent that? and yeah even IEDs also do way more damage to tanks than other tanks,
Good old plate armor was not easily pierced/cleaved through at all, it took hefty crossbows with the right tip and a good angle to slam through plate armor, or bludgeons with points on it, like a lucerne, to pierce through with a strong hit at the right angle.
Axes, swords, anything that was bladed and relied on slicing was heavily limited against plate armor, not even the biggest man equipped with the biggest of axes could hope to cleave through well maintained plate, beating the other guy unconcious with the axe was still an option. Using a longsword as a bludgeon did work though, I believe swings using the pommel and guard were called 'Murder-Strokes.'
Spears and blunt force were the most useful things, spears because of their ease of use and their ability to more easily slide into openings in the armor, and blunt because the sheer force could bruise and break bones, eventually the person wearing the armor would be battered to the ground and then easily stabbed.



something tells me I should watch Star Trek, not the movies but the old series

(08-18-2016, 01:06 AM)Dipdoo Wrote: [ -> ]Good old plate armor was not easily pierced/cleaved through at all, it took hefty crossbows with the right tip and a good angle to slam through plate armor, or bludgeons with points on it, like a lucerne, to pierce through with a strong hit at the right angle.
Axes, swords, anything that was bladed and relied on slicing was heavily limited against plate armor, not even the biggest man equipped with the biggest of axes could hope to cleave through well maintained plate, beating the other guy unconcious with the axe was still an option. Using a longsword as a bludgeon did work though, I believe swings using the pommel and guard were called 'Murder-Strokes.'
Spears and blunt force were the most useful things, spears because of their ease of use and their ability to more easily slide into openings in the armor, and blunt because the sheer force could bruise and break bones, eventually the person wearing the armor would be battered to the ground and then easily stabbed.

but will the same applied to modern armor(MBT/LT/power armor), especially one that proven to be difficult to be penetrated even with APFSDS,
(08-18-2016, 01:16 AM)SCN-3_NULL Wrote: [ -> ]


something I should watch Star Trek, not the movies but the old series

(08-18-2016, 01:06 AM)Dipdoo Wrote: [ -> ]Good old plate armor was not easily pierced/cleaved through at all, it took hefty crossbows with the right tip and a good angle to slam through plate armor, or bludgeons with points on it, like a lucerne, to pierce through with a strong hit at the right angle.
Axes, swords, anything that was bladed and relied on slicing was heavily limited against plate armor, not even the biggest man equipped with the biggest of axes could hope to cleave through well maintained plate, beating the other guy unconcious with the axe was still an option. Using a longsword as a bludgeon did work though, I believe swings using the pommel and guard were called 'Murder-Strokes.'
Spears and blunt force were the most useful things, spears because of their ease of use and their ability to more easily slide into openings in the armor, and blunt because the sheer force could bruise and break bones, eventually the person wearing the armor would be battered to the ground and then easily stabbed.

but will the same applied to modern armor(MBT/LT/power armor), especially one that proven to be difficult to be penetrated even with APFSDS,
APDS is applying it to modern armor though.