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(04-07-2017, 07:32 PM)Tanis Wrote: [ -> ]What was this debate about then? near future reality? science fiction? alternate history?!? what?!?!?

Should i continue attempting to participate in this forum? offering what i know, and what logical conclusions i've come too over the past nearly 2 decades of following scientific and mil-tech developments semi-obsessively? or am i just wasting my time, and bashing my head against another brick wall? because i have better things to do with my time.

I realised I had a mental issue priorly unrecognized before thanks to you that I need to work on dealing with, couldn't understand the post after I even wrote it.  Plus i'm currently recovering from the flu and a near deadly body temp.  I have heat rash covering most of my body.

I concede to anything you said without even reading most of it.  My post was overall meaningless and confounded.  Thinking from multiple points of view at the same time does that leading to making conflicting points and you shouldn't have even wasted your time and effort on me(This is the internet, WHY did you waste your time on me?  I could have been trolling...  I wasn't, but..).  I will read your info later.  But I have no reason to constitute counter points or anything.

Popular mechanics magazine a long time ago (more than ten years ago going by my own age), was a magazine for kids that had info on the prototyping of exo-suits.  My brother got that magazine at one point and I went through it with him, and I figured, if they were showing our children, then it must have existed for a long while already.  Even if only in a schematic or blueprint-only form.  Hopefully that should clear up a tiny bit of the confusion about my points, otherwise I'm sorry.  I have nothing.
(04-02-2017, 10:51 AM)achroma Wrote: [ -> ]why did Frank cross the road?
Because he wasn't wearing a seatbelt

Wow fucked up
(04-07-2017, 08:41 PM)Lost Rinoah Wrote: [ -> ]I realised I had a mental issue priorly unrecognized before thanks to you that I need to work on dealing with, couldn't understand the post after I even wrote it.  Plus i'm currently recovering from the flu and a near deadly body temp.  I have heat rash covering most of my body.

I concede to anything you said without even reading most of it.  My post was overall meaningless and confounded.  Thinking from multiple points of view at the same time does that leading to making conflicting points and you shouldn't have even wasted your time and effort on me(This is the internet, WHY did you waste your time on me?  I could have been trolling...  I wasn't, but..).  I will read your info later.  But I have no reason to constitute counter points or anything.

Popular mechanics magazine a long time ago (more than ten years ago going by my own age), was a magazine for kids that had info on the prototyping of exo-suits.  My brother got that magazine at one point and I went through it with him, and I figured, if they were showing our children, then it must have existed for a long while already.  Even if only in a schematic or blueprint-only form.  Hopefully that should clear up a tiny bit of the confusion about my points, otherwise I'm sorry.  I have nothing.

Sad  Ouch, i hope you get over that flu soon.

Thus things finally become clear, and my anger has abated:


As to why i responded, 1. i have difficulty backing down from a fight (perceived or real); 2. This forum seems fairly respectable and 3. you don't strike me as the trolling type.


I do tend to ramble, so i don't always do a good job of clearly separating the sections that are my opinion, from the sections that are independently verifiable facts; and if i do make a mistake i try to take it in stride, and learn from it.


I have also read those issues of Popular Mechanics you speak of, unfortunately they where not among the back issues i saved from the PSCI library, and after Park Street was demolished and replaced about 5 years ago, those back issues probably ended up in the city dump; so i cannot attest to what those articles contained any more precisely than you can, but it's a safe bet those schematics and pictures you saw where at least 90% in house graphics, drawn mostly from the minds of a few professional artists, intermixed with a few images or photo's from the actual projects for credibility points.

As a general rule of thumb regarding magazines like Popular Mechanics and Popular Science; it is always wise to treat any major claims they make, with the same kind of healthy skepticism you would reserve for Wikipedia. They are first and foremost magazines, they can and have played fast and loose with the facts if it makes for a more interesting story.
(04-08-2017, 06:54 AM)Tanis Wrote: [ -> ]Thus things finally become clear, and my anger has abated:


As to why i responded, 1. i have difficulty backing down from a fight (perceived or real); 2. This forum seems fairly respectable and 3. you don't strike me as the trolling type.


I do tend to ramble, so i don't always do a good job of clearly separating the sections that are my opinion, from the sections that are independently verifiable facts; and if i do make a mistake i try to take it in stride, and learn from it.


I have also read those issues of Popular Mechanics you speak of, unfortunately they where not among the back issues i saved from the PSCI library, and after Park Street was demolished and replaced about 5 years ago, those back issues probably ended up in the city dump; so i cannot attest to what those articles contained any more precisely than you can, but it's a safe bet those schematics and pictures you saw where at least 90% in house graphics, drawn mostly from the minds of a few professional artists, intermixed with a few images or photo's from the actual projects for credibility points.

As a general rule of thumb regarding magazines like Popular Mechanics and Popular Science; it is always wise to treat any major claims they make, with the same kind of healthy skepticism you would reserve for Wikipedia. They are first and foremost magazines, they can and have played fast and loose with the facts if it makes for a more interesting story.
I was stating things with that already in mind actually.  But the fact of the matter is, even with 90% falsity, there has to be at least some truth in it or popular mechanics wouldn't have let it run without stating it as being science fiction or possible things of the future.    Although I admit I now remember that they DID point out that it, although at the time was already being worked on.  Was something for the future.  Incomplete, still in blueprinting, not even prototyping. 

But afterwards I've heard nothing from it.  Meaning I had to operate under theories from multiple points of view, smashing them together to see which ones make more sense to have survived into the modern day as the prime reality.  And that's where my previous post became a mess.  I tried putting something into words that cannot, and lost track of things.  (I can see one thing from multiple perspectives, multiple points of view, at the same time, and trying to put it into words makes the masochistic mess that was my messy post)  

Although at one point you did accidentally put a straw-man argument into your post.  I can say with less than meager doubt that it was actually an accident by looking back.  You changed gears and started focusing on the differences between military forces, standard, and elite, which should have stayed separate from exo-suits/power-armor, as it doesn't have an effect on them since in that situation you could simply replace it with anything else and have the same conversation play out.  Equipping your elite forces with better vehicles, better equipment, and comparing ideology to standard forces.. 

Although comparing powered/active armors to passive armours for the purposes of further refining what constitutes a weakness or strength for each I believe would be worthwhile.

Hopefully this can clean up things now that I can think straight and am recovering from the flu.  I have a habit of agreeing with people, saying something to add support to what they said while also asking them to think about it a different way, and having them say "no, you're wrong."  Because I think oddly and get misunderstood...  I've not said you are wrong yet.  I've been saying there's multiple ways to think about everything, and that any one way is not particularly correct or incorrect even if it is based on perceptibly greater preference by more folks.  Change your thinking around every now and then, don't be afraid to look at things from perspectives you aren't used to.  It's a fun way to learn new things, even if it doesn't make you more agreeable due to misunderstandings.

So yeah.  I absolutely apologize for my mess of a post before.  I was out of line and not thinking straight.  This one should hopefully get things back on track.  
Went to see the Ghost in the Shell movie today.

Its actually not bad.

But it cannot be anything other than a reboot, or at least re-telling.

They combined highlights from movie 1 and Stand Alone Complex 1st gig and 2nd gig to produce a workable plot that could be understood by anyone regardless of familiarity with the franchise.

In the process, Motoko was given a redesigned backstory that is fundamentally different from what had been suggested by the older works. There are several discrepancies that make it quite incompatible with the older story.

I do like how they reimagined the city, incorporating technologies that have already come to pass while extending it a little further to what seems a likely possible future vision. The older anime does look dated by comparison because of how real world technology has changed.

So I dunno. Its not nearly as bad as I was worried it might be, but I don't think I would call it that good either given the timeline conflicts and the fairly generous artistic liberty that goes along with it.
(04-09-2017, 03:08 AM)OdinYggd Wrote: [ -> ]Went to see the Ghost in the Shell movie today.

Its actually not bad.

But it cannot be anything other than a reboot, or at least re-telling.

They combined highlights from movie 1 and Stand Alone Complex 1st gig and 2nd gig to produce a workable plot that could be understood by anyone regardless of familiarity with the franchise.

In the process, Motoko was given a redesigned backstory that is fundamentally different from what had been suggested by the older works. There are several discrepancies that make it quite incompatible with the older story.

I do like how they reimagined the city, incorporating technologies that have already come to pass while extending it a little further to what seems a likely possible future vision. The older anime does look dated by comparison because of how real world technology has changed.

So I dunno. Its not nearly as bad as I was worried it might be, but I don't think I would call it that good either given the timeline conflicts and the fairly generous artistic liberty that goes along with it.

Given that they kept so close to the original movie (in so many ways it's almost a shot for shot remake) I really dislike that they changed the premise so much. It pretty much undermines the whole point of the original story so I don't know why they stuck so closely to it. It felt like they just took bits and bobs from the entire franchise in a way that didn't really do justice to any of them (but I suppose also didn't blatantly offend any of them either).

My main objection is the way the premise was changed made Motoko a really weak character which sucked given she's one of the most quintessentially strong female leads. Instead of being strong and indepent, and embracing her cybernetic body she was made out to be very emotionally fragile and pretty much just someone who's beaten around by the whims of the world.
Well last night was interesting. Somebody on a worldbuilding discord pinged with a short story they'd written using my setting. To call it flattering would be an understatement, to be honest I'm still not sure how to respond.
(04-09-2017, 08:23 AM)Segolia Wrote: [ -> ]Given that they kept so close to the original movie (in so many ways it's almost a shot for shot remake) I really dislike that they changed the premise so much. It pretty much undermines the whole point of the original story so I don't know why they stuck so closely to it. It felt like they just took bits and bobs from the entire franchise in a way that didn't really do justice to any of them (but I suppose also didn't blatantly offend any of them either).

My main objection is the way the premise was changed made Motoko a really weak character which sucked given she's one of the most quintessentially strong female leads. Instead of being strong and indepent, and embracing her cybernetic body she was made out to be very emotionally fragile and pretty much just someone who's beaten around by the whims of the world.

Now that you mention it, yeah they did mess that up.

They basically turned Motoko into a millenial- a victim of circumstances who has been denied every chance available to really take her own path in life. And using a really well worn plot mechanic that appears often in fanfics and roleplays too. Nearly 10 years ago I wrote a similar backstory, a character who by circumstances was turned into a weapons delivery platform and kept under tight control with regular memory modifications and no privacy.

The result is instead of the confident beauty we know her as from the older works, instead we see a much less experienced Motoko who isn't sure of herself or where she belongs in the world.

They did actually work this in somewhat, and I suppose you could take it as this is all happening to a younger Motoko than the rest of the franchise- but again you get timeline conflicts. She already was who she was long before Section 9, when she was serving in armed forces elsewhere.
(04-10-2017, 11:41 AM)Surge Wrote: [ -> ]Well last night was interesting. Somebody on a worldbuilding discord pinged with a short story they'd written using my setting. To call it flattering would be an understatement, to be honest I'm still not sure how to respond.

Well, how do you want to respond?
Do videogames usually have music with lyrics in them?
(04-10-2017, 09:31 PM)AustinLB90 Wrote: [ -> ]Do videogames usually have music with lyrics in them?

Some games do. And even then, it's usually only certain songs.
(04-10-2017, 11:24 PM)Umbra Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-10-2017, 09:31 PM)AustinLB90 Wrote: [ -> ]Do videogames usually have music with lyrics in them?

Some games do. And even then, it's usually only certain songs.

About how many songs?
I'm assuming about 2 right?


Edit: Remember to be thorough when looking for rp replies. Don't be like me and miss it. I feel kinda dumb for missing one.
(04-11-2017, 12:28 AM)AustinLB90 Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-10-2017, 11:24 PM)Umbra Wrote: [ -> ]Some games do. And even then, it's usually only certain songs.

About how many songs?
I'm assuming about 2 right?


Edit: Remember to be thorough when looking for rp replies. Don't be like me and miss it. I feel kinda dumb for missing one.

Usually only during cutscenes that have no dialogue.  (Kingdom hearts series, ending credits of many games.)  Or in menus/on radios as ambient sound.  (S.T.A.L.K.E.R. series, any radio, Planet explorers main menu theme.)
(04-11-2017, 07:29 AM)Lost Rinoah Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-11-2017, 12:28 AM)AustinLB90 Wrote: [ -> ]About how many songs?
I'm assuming about 2 right?


Edit: Remember to be thorough when looking for rp replies. Don't be like me and miss it. I feel kinda dumb for missing one.

Usually only during cutscenes that have no dialogue.  (Kingdom hearts series, ending credits of many games.)  Or in menus/on radios as ambient sound.  (S.T.A.L.K.E.R. series, any radio, Planet explorers main menu theme.)

Huh. Steamworld hiest has like 12 songs strewn about among the bar shops (only the shops that are bars) and after you beat a MAIN boss. I knew that wasn't normal. The songs are great though.
(04-11-2017, 11:44 AM)AustinLB90 Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-11-2017, 07:29 AM)Lost Rinoah Wrote: [ -> ]Usually only during cutscenes that have no dialogue.  (Kingdom hearts series, ending credits of many games.)  Or in menus/on radios as ambient sound.  (S.T.A.L.K.E.R. series, any radio, Planet explorers main menu theme.)

Huh. Steamworld hiest has like 12 songs strewn about among the bar shops (only the shops that are bars) and after you beat a MAIN boss. I knew that wasn't normal. The songs are great though.

none of the characters in steamworld heist actually speak.  At the most putting out mechanical chirping.  Besides.  As far as i've seen all of steam-powered giraffe's music has lyrics except for the steamworld heist menu theme.
(04-11-2017, 12:56 PM)Lost Rinoah Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-11-2017, 11:44 AM)AustinLB90 Wrote: [ -> ]Huh. Steamworld hiest has like 12 songs strewn about among the bar shops (only the shops that are bars) and after you beat a MAIN boss. I knew that wasn't normal. The songs are great though.

none of the characters in steamworld heist actually speak.  At the most putting out mechanical chirping.  Besides.  As far as i've seen all of steam-powered giraffe's music has lyrics except for the steamworld heist menu theme.
Well even when the music plays you're not supposed to hear the chirping unless you talk to somebody. The menu theme does have a version where there is lyrics though I don't know where and if it plays ever in game. I'm just surprised they stuck so many in a game type where you wouldn't really expect any songs with lyrics.
(04-11-2017, 08:47 PM)AustinLB90 Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-11-2017, 12:56 PM)Lost Rinoah Wrote: [ -> ]none of the characters in steamworld heist actually speak.  At the most putting out mechanical chirping.  Besides.  As far as i've seen all of steam-powered giraffe's music has lyrics except for the steamworld heist menu theme.
Well even when the music plays you're not supposed to hear the chirping unless you talk to somebody. The menu theme does have a version where there is lyrics though I don't know where and if it plays ever in game. I'm just surprised they stuck so many in a game type where you wouldn't really expect any songs with lyrics.

https://www.youtube.com/user/SpineRaptor

steam powered giraffe's youtube account.

It's actually a game perfectly suited for music with lyrics and there is nothing strange about it.  Usually the only limiter is money since most small games won't be able to get someone who can sing worth a rat's ass so they'll do their best with what they have instead.  Often leading to no vocals even where they would be more suited in the game.  Then there is simply larger games which are designed by commitee, which are focused around being as inoffensive as possible.  Meaning all of the music in it is going to be wordless as they blow the budget on voice-actors instead of music.  And will just pay for the right of some random popular music they believe fits well enough.  Occasionally you get good composers coming over to make music.  But that's often the lazy option honestly even if it's better than the even lazier alternative.  Requiring the least effort for fresh quality.  Then you get times where you luck out and a composer is such a fan of the games he made music for that he'll often pop up to do music for you by asking for a mere 5-15$, if not simply free.  Though this is usually only seen for voiceless composers with soundboards as an option for adding speech snippets.  As the case with Frank Klepacki and a few others but i'm bad with names and can't remember them.  I've simply listened to Klepacki for more than ten years.

So the only real strange thing is that they managed to get good music with good vocals that doesn't seem to suffer because of it as a small dev.
(04-11-2017, 10:42 PM)Lost Rinoah Wrote: [ -> ]
(04-11-2017, 08:47 PM)AustinLB90 Wrote: [ -> ]Well even when the music plays you're not supposed to hear the chirping unless you talk to somebody. The menu theme does have a version where there is lyrics though I don't know where and if it plays ever in game. I'm just surprised they stuck so many in a game type where you wouldn't really expect any songs with lyrics.

https://www.youtube.com/user/SpineRaptor

steam powered giraffe's youtube account.

It's actually a game perfectly suited for music with lyrics and there is nothing strange about it.  Usually the only limiter is money since most small games won't be able to get someone who can sing worth a rat's ass so they'll do their best with what they have instead.  Often leading to no vocals even where they would be more suited in the game.  Then there is simply larger games which are designed by commitee, which are focused around being as inoffensive as possible.  Meaning all of the music in it is going to be wordless as they blow the budget on voice-actors instead of music.  And will just pay for the right of some random popular music they believe fits well enough.  Occasionally you get good composers coming over to make music.  But that's often the lazy option honestly even if it's better than the even lazier alternative.  Requiring the least effort for fresh quality.  Then you get times where you luck out and a composer is such a fan of the games he made music for that he'll often pop up to do music for you by asking for a mere 5-15$, if not simply free.  Though this is usually only seen for voiceless composers with soundboards as an option for adding speech snippets.  As the case with Frank Klepacki and a few others but i'm bad with names and can't remember them.  I've simply listened to Klepacki for more than ten years.

So the only real strange thing is that they managed to get good music with good vocals that doesn't seem to suffer because of it as a small dev.
Huh I didn't know much about the reason why videogames don't usually have songs with lyrics.
This all makes a lot of sense.  Wow I'm surprised how easy it is for most games to have so little of these songs.

Also I don't think image and form is gonna stay small for long they've had 2 great successes so far and with dig 2 I feel like they'll end up no longer being small anymore. The reason they are making dig 2 is because they've grown enough to expand upon what they wanted to do in that game, they want to do more with it.

Edit: the title song with lyrics is, i think, the one called the stars.
(04-12-2017, 01:24 AM)AustinLB90 Wrote: [ -> ]Huh I didn't know much about the reason why videogames don't usually have songs with lyrics.
This all makes a lot of sense.  Wow I'm surprised how easy it is for most games to have so little of these songs.

Also I don't think image and form is gonna stay small for long they've had 2 great successes so far and with dig 2 I feel like they'll end up no longer being small anymore. The reason they are making dig 2 is because they've grown enough to expand upon what they wanted to do in that game, they want to do more with it.

Edit: the title song with lyrics is, i think, the one called the stars.
The question you have to ask is "Will it detract or distract from the game, or add to it?"  In cases where a game has little to no dialogue and where it won't distract (Intense gameplay=no lyrics) music with lyrics is actually a preferable choice.   Since it adds an additional layer to the music that allows limitless potential.  (Wanna tell the story in the background with the music, while the characters act in the foreground?)

At this point though my train of thought ends so i'd start getting messy if I continued.  But it's clear you garnered something helpful from what i've said, so i'm content with this.

Also, no, Steamworld heist's theme is called Heist ho! and is lyric-less.  I have the OST.  The Stars is actually separate and has entirely different backing music to the lyrics.  Which makes me confused why so many folks just mashed them together on youtube.  Or can even say they sound good together since it leads to complete lack in harmony which is horrid sounding due to how harmony is VERY inherently important to the music Steam Powered Giraffe makes.  

Edit: Looking further into it though, it's actually that Heist Ho! has a separate prelude in it that The Stars does not contain.  Otherwise yeah it is The Stars.
Steam powered giraffe's music is pretty good. They may be a strange band but a good one.